How Cammie turned her fertility journey of loss into a story of magic!

Hey mama-bear,

This is a very special episode of the Fertile Ground podcast🤗 I don’t do guests – but Cammie’s an exception.

She signed up for coaching with me 2.5 years ago. At that point, she had had 4 miscarriages and was also grieving the loss of her mother.

After signing up, she said, “I need support and I resonate with your message, but I don’t want to talk fertility.” I was in. And soon after… the magic✨ started to unfold.

Although she was grieving, Cammie was vulnerable, open and ready to do life another way. It took exactly one session for her life to start changing.

In the podcast, you’ll learn the limiting beliefs Cammie shifted and HOW we shifted them, so that she could open her heart up to creating her life (and her baby) another way. One that didn’t involve celery, smoothies and sacrifice. But trust, pleasure and acceptance.

This week’s podcast is about: How Cammie turned her fertility journey of loss into a story of magic.

Mama-bears, in this podcast, we go deep. No fluff. Just the real deal of how this mama-bear changed her mind, to change her life – and to eventually, have her happy, healthy baby boy💙

You’ll learn how to:

• overcome the identity of loss.
• start trusting the fertility journey, even when you’ve lost all faith.
• address the uncomfortable aspects of the journey with confidence.
• turn the need to have a baby, into a happy, healthy desire.

There are so many nuggets of pure fucking gold inside. So many AHA’s and omg-I-never-thought-of-it-that-way moments.

I’m grateful to be able to provide you with this valuable resource to let go of suffering and CREATE BABY MAGIC!

Listen Now!

Much love,

Xo Spenser

full episode transcript:

Spenser: Hi, mama bears is Spenser and I am here with my lovely guest Cammie. Cammie, do you know that besides my husband, you're the first guest on the Fertile Ground Podcast.

Cammie: Oh my God. Really?

Spenser: Yeah. Yeah. I've never, this is mostly been like a solo space, but we, you know, we messaged each other a lot... Both being new moms now. And I'm like, you know, what would be the most fun thing in the world one day? Do you know when, like the shower gods are talking to you?

Cammie: They talk to me all the time.

Spenser: Right. And it was like, Oh, you need to interview Cammie for the podcast. And I was like, yeah, I do. So we're here. Thank you so much for being here.

Cammie: Absolutely thank you for inviting me. And I loved that episode with your husband, by the way. That was just so juicy to hear a man in the space.

Spenser: I know he was honoured to be a part of it. Yeah, it was, it was good. Yeah. If you guys haven't listened to that one, go listen to the podcast For Your Partner, and you guys can listen to it together, you and your partner. So, it's a really good coming together.

Cammie: Yeah.

Spenser: So Cammie, the reason why I wanted to bring you into this space, into the sacred space, is you and I worked together. Was it almost, oh, I guess it was like two and a half years ago right? Around there.

Cammie: So it was 2018.

Spenser: Okay. Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. So I think..

Cammie: It was 2018, and I remember that distinctly.

Spenser: Yeah. Awesome.

Cammie: I remember distinctly.

Spenser: Yeah, you guys will learn why she remembers that distinctly very soon. Um, and honestly working with you really stands out and it was really amazing because, um, your story is, is miraculous and it is this story based on strengths and resilience. Um, And a lot of love and, um, and like miracles just kept happening as you shifted. Um, and I just want to instill, uh, our listeners with hope. Right. And another way of creating this baby.. Right. So do you mind just letting us, filling us in a bit on your fertility journey?

Cammie: So I got married in 2015. To the perfect man. He is just like, he is everything, you know, um, just a genuinely good guy. Good, good man. Good man. And in my mind I'm thinking, okay, I've waited now because I think I was 36- 37. So I'm thinking to myself, okay, now I can go ahead and get busy on this baby-making thing, because I, myself was born to teenage parents and I was raised by my grandmother from birth. So there was so much pain and so much chaos in my dynamic as a child, not having parents and being a motherless child that I deliberately waited.

I did not want to have a child before I was ready. And I didn't want to have a child before I had a solid partner to have a child with. So I had really been holding on because I knew I wanted to be a mom, but I'd really been holding on to like this perfect time. So it's perfect now. Right. I have the perfect job. I have the perfect mate, and now I'm going to have this baby and it's going to be perfect and we'll just ride off into our perfect little sunset. So I got married in September. I was pregnant in October and had miscarried by November. And it was so incredibly painful because I was so happy. I was so happy and there wasn't anything in me that wasn't sure and certain that I was going to have that baby.

I, it never even entered my mind that I wasn't going to just start my family right after I got married. I thought that that's the way that it would go. And so I was so hurt and I felt blindsided because in my family, everybody is just popping out babies like rabbits, right?

Spenser: Yeah. Same with mine.

Cammie: Everybody's popping out baby, like rabbits, but also, you know, I'm not paying attention to the timing of those things.

I'm just feeling like why me, because everybody else is having all these babies and you know, like what happened to me? I am a black woman. First of all, this doesn't happen to us. What could this be? Like? I was just, I felt blindsided and so incredibly hurt, so incredibly hurt. So, um, I want to say, so that's like November, so then skip to February, um, get pregnant again and have another miscarriage.

And so now I'm like, now what exactly is happening? And by that second miscarriage, I had internalized everything. I had internalized everything. So the first thing that made sense to my mind was to see a fertility doctor, because there must be something wrong. There must be something wrong. So I'm going to a fertility doctor.

Spenser: That's actually a really good point. Cammie bringing that up. Like that's what we, that's what culture tells us to do, right?

Cammie: Fix it. I got to fix it, I'm broken in some, some, some way. I need to fix it..

Spenser: In some way my body is broken.

Cammie: My body is broken and I need to fix it. So I go to see a fertility doctor, and specifically I go to see an IVF doctor. So I go, and I explained to them that I've, you know, recently had two miscarriages and that I just want to learn what the issue is so that I can have a baby. And so I go through the whole battery of tests as though I'm going to begin IVF and I wasn't opposed to IVF. As a matter of fact, I wasn't opposed to it. I'm like, let's go ahead and, you know, do these tests and you can tell me what's wrong. And if IVF is the path for me, I'm ready for that because I wanted the baby yesterday. So I run through. A whole battery of tests, which I know you are extremely familiar with.

I go through that whole thing and I'm thinking in my mind, listen, worst case scenario. I'm just going to start IVF and then I'll have my baby. I'm thinking that's going to be, you know, it won't be anything, any worse than that. I do the test. The doctor comes back and tells me, well, the first issue for you is going to be your age. Um, you know, your eggs, you don't have enough eggs, your eggs, aren't in the best condition and you are overweight. And so these are all things that are going to be standing in your way. So I recommend that you, um, have gastric bypass surgery and do IVF and then we'll take care of it that way.

Spenser: Wow.

Cammie: I said, well, You know, I'm not in denial about my physical body, you know, I'm definitely fluffy, but I don't need gastric bypass. That's number one. Number two, if we're just going to use common sense here, why would I go through a gastric bypass surgery and then plot to carry a baby? That doesn't sound like it makes sense. This is my recommendation to you. And I think this is the only way that you're really going to be able to have children. Wow.

Spenser: Yeah, no kidding. No shit hey.

Cammie: So I didn't even really know what to do with that. My immediate sentiment was, fuck you.

Spenser: That would have been mine too.

Cammie: But as the days and the weeks went by. I started to let that become part of my psyche and my way of thinking. I'm too old, my eggs aren't good. I'm too fat. I'm not in, I'm not good enough to have a baby, you know, is what it all boils down to at the end of the day. So I say, you know what? I can do this. I can do this. We're going to. You know, we're going to do it. So now I am tracking my cycle like a boundary honor and I am listening to all the audio books.

Spenser: Haven't we all been there? Hey! Gosh.

Cammie: I'm looking at it on my bookshelf right now, taking charge of your fertility, this thick Bible ass book. I dive deep, deep into it. And now I have all of the Nordic DHEA that you can get, I am now drinking smoothies every morning and I have 20 different powders and supplements. I'm throwing into that thing. And I'm just about it.

Spenser: Yeah. That's what happens. Like that's kinda what happens. Um, you know, for many people who are listening is the, our culture's way of fixing things is to get very analytical, right. Is to make a list, check everything off of that list, get very, um, educated on the science behind it all, which can be wonderful. But when you are, you are trying to conceive, tell me where I'm wrong, Cammie, but we'd become obsessed. At least that's what happened to me.

Cammie: Completely obsessed, micromanaging yourself. And at some point it becomes sadomasochistic. You're, you're just beating yourself down.

Spenser: Yeah, I know. Yeah. None of it feels good.

Cammie: You're killing yourself, it doesn't, it doesn't feel good. You know, it doesn't feel good. So it's like if I, um, miss my smoothie or if I, for some reason, just if I want a cheeseburger, I am awful because I'm standing in the way of, you know, conceiving. And so at some point it becomes something that's really sick.

Spenser: Right, as we strive for perfection in order to believe that we are, that's how or when we will be worthy of baby.

Cammie: Right, right. I can work my way to it. Right. If I work hard at this, I can be successful. And so I'm, I'm all about it. And I'm like, you know what, that's how I'm going to get my baby. I'm going to deserve it. I'm going to work hard enough to deserve my baby. I'm going to work hard enough to deserve my baby. So I get pregnant again. And now I am like injecting my, giving myself shots of progesterone and the whole thing. And I'm just like, feeling like a pin cushion, but I'm like, I have to do it. I have to do it. So I'm like getting injections and also using like progesterone suppositories, going to the doctor once a week to have my blood tested, to see where my hormone levels are. And I'm miserable.

Spenser: That is what is very important Cammie is that in this pursuit this isn't always a terrible path to take. Depending on your personality, your makeup, if you are feeling amazing in this pursuit, depending on your nature, I guess is how I like to describe it, right?

If you are miserable in this pursuit, then something's not exactly right. Right? A lot of people, they make all these changes and they feel incredibly empowered and strong and they feel good. They like that. But that's, that is what we need to be taking note of as we're on this journey and in the pursuit, if we are miserable, it's time to adjust the scales.

Cammie: How do you feel? Because whatever you do to get there is who you will be when you get there. Or in this case, if you don't, and then how do you get there? And then how do you reckon with that? So I'm putting myself, I am so terrified and petrified every day and I'm putting myself through the ringer for this, and I have another miscarriage and I'm like, I drank all the smoothies, all this, I did everything right. I did everything right. And it's still not working. So I must really just be broken. I must just really be broken. That wouldn't, that must just be the thing. And this particular miscarriage, of all of my miscarriages, I had to have the DNC because my body just wouldn't get the message. It wouldn't it. But with this particular miscarriage, I ended up hemorrhaging and ended up in the hospital.

And I was anemic for months after. So I couldn't even take a really hot shower. I'd pass out. I'd pass out! I had to have a shower seat, the whole thing. And my body was wrecked after this particular miscarriage, because I had done everything I could do to hold on to it. So in the aftermath, releasing all of those hormones and that whole thing, and then having the hemorrhage and going through the, it was just like, what is happening? So I felt like I was in the Twilight zone, but what I knew for sure was that I was definitely broken, definitely broken because I couldn't even effort my way.

Spenser: Yeah. Then what? That's what you're thinking right.

Cammie: What now. What now, what now, and now, you know, I'm looking at... I am getting real close to 40. So I'm getting into a place where I'm thinking just based on that, like this isn't going to happen for me, you know, this isn't gonna happen for me.

So now we hit 2017 and, um, I get pregnant again. And this time I'm not even allowing myself to feel anything about it one way or the other. Um, you know, anytime that little hope that this could really, you know, it really could, that I really could, um, you know, have this baby, I would just stomp that down.

Like, so by the time July came, I miscarried and I said, okay, I knew that was going to happen. And so I'm pretty much, I'm just kind of good. Now I'm done with this. So this is July, August comes my mother's ill and we discovered that it's stage four lung cancer. So from that minute, until October when she died, I spent all my time taking care of her.

So I took a leave of absence from work and did hospice with her in my home. So it was very quick, it happened really, really fast. And so now I am trying to grieve the loss of my mother. You know, so this is huge and anyone who's ever lost a mom in particular, anyone knows that it's a really special kind of hell. So I lost my mother and at the same time, my husband's job closed here in Colorado. And he had to go work in North Carolina for six months. So I am feeling as alone as alone can get. Husband's gone. My mama is gone, and I'm just by myself. Um, I'm just by myself. So I had already, um, you know, been signing up for newsletters about fertility and groups and communities, you know, about that. And it was through one of those things that I had discovered you.

That I discovered you, and I remembered filling out your little form online, you know, about, you know, do you think you want to work, work with me? And I remember filling that out and I remember our first call and it was like, well, first of all, this is my person. And what we're, we're not even, I don't even want to discuss baby-making. There's some other stuff that's present here for me right now that it's not even about the baby. And I remembered feeling really at ease and really exhaling. Like, ahhhhh, I don't have to get back on this fight and this push, you know, and this effort and this drive and this struggle. You know, to make a baby

Spenser: A hustle, right. That's what it feels like.

Cammie: Um, and so it was really our work that cracked me open and I'll never forget it because it was, I will never forget it. I was in the midst of dealing with my mother's estate, you know, biologically she's my grandmother. And so she has children, you know, that she gave birth to. And I'm now at the helm of her estate and handling inheritances for people and all of the drama that was happening around me.

And I remember we were having this conversation during one of our sessions and I was saying, I have to stay ready. I have to have my armor on every single day. I can't relax. I can't be vulnerable because I have to stay ready. You don't know the characters that I'm dealing with. Like I have to stay ready, and I remember you getting quiet and saying, but do you really?

I'm like, yeah, I do. Did you just hear me? Did you just hear about what they're doing? I actually do have to be ready to fight, I have to be ready to fight. And you were like, no, that's bullshit. And I was like, excuse me!

Spenser: I know. I like to say I lovingly call people out on their bullshit in the most loving way possible.

Cammie: That single moment cracked me open. Oh. I don't have to, I can take this. I can take the armor off, lay it down and walk away. I don't have to be ready to fight. That was the first time in my life that I knew and understood that to be true.

And just by that one, single notion. Yeah. Cracked my heart open. Yeah. I don't have to be a warrior. I don't have to be a warrior. I get to decide, I don't have to stay ready to fight. I don't have to be a warrior. And that mentality, um, you know, which is something I was raised to be, you know, for a whole lot of reasons that, you know, we don't, we don't even have time to delve into. It was linked directly to my fertility journey. Yeah. Because I didn't know, prior to that day that I didn't have to fight for everything. Yeah. So expecting to be knocked down and meet opposition and for everything to be a struggle. And for me to have to snatch every little piece of goodness for myself. So it took me 40 years to learn that.

So really like it hit me just right in the perfect spot, just right dead on in the heart. And that was like, Whoa. Right at the end, I was like, Oh my goodness, Spenser. And I remember it being so emotional cause I was like, I don't have to fight.

Spenser: Yeah. Yeah. So that's what we did Cammie. And that's what we do in coaching sessions is I, don't just, it's a, it's a technique of asking questions in which you know, it kind of tricks your brain into seeing things another way, you know, it's not just a straight out, you don't have to fight anymore kind of thing, but it is. I ask you questions in which brings new light to the situation that maybe you wouldn't have seen if you were just going about the motions and it takes, it's amazing to have that third party that is listening to your story and noticing where is the pain?

Where's the fight, where's the struggle at, and for you, it was that, you know, bringing it, you know, to bring it down really, it was that closed heart. Right. And it was cracking that hard, wide open again. And I remember though, like you were also at a point where loss was your identity.

Cammie: Oh yeah. Right?

Spenser: Yeah. And that's what I, that's what many women listening to this who have been through losses in their lives and, and, and losses of babies. It can take over. I mean, it can become who you are, is that woman who has loss and has been through trauma and has had miscarriages or a miscarriage and, um, or pregnancy loss, right, whatever you want to call it, and it can take over. And it's like, there's no opportunity to breathe and to even see yourself as something else.

Cammie: Exactly, absolutely. Who I was. Uh, if I would have had the courage to just walk around in costume, I would have just been in a black veil everywhere I went with my head down, you know, holding onto little sonogram pictures.

It absolutely. It was who I was. It was, it was the the most significant part of my story. It had just become who I was, period. I was only existing between pregnancy and loss. That was my whole existence. That was my whole existence.

Spenser: What do you think when, when, you know, you didn't want to dive into fertility talking about fertility, which I actually really admire. A lot of people come to me and they're like, I don't want to go there. Um, and I actually really admire that, not to say that people who do want to talk about fertility or not, but it's tell us about the power. Well, I guess we're not done your story by any means, but tell us about the power of, you know, being able to talk about life and how, I guess what I'm trying to say is how can we be guided in the sense of I'm so fucking done talking about fertility and the losses I've been through.

I guess a really good tip would be to find something else in your life that you're, you know, struggling with or having a hard time with and applying these certain tools and questioning the thoughts around that completely and directly also affects your fertility, right? Like, is that what you said?

Cammie: Absolutely. It absolutely does. I think the one thing that I had working for me is, is that I started the therapeutic process really early in my life. So I left my mother's house at 19. And I remember I looked in the phone book and found a therapist that day and I have always been a part of a therapeutic process and I will always be, and of course it has evolved, you know, from the time I was 19 until now.

Um, and so now I'm much more comfortable and confident in knowing what therapy looks like for me. Yes. Um, and I am, you know, even able to administer, you know, those therapeutic things for myself in a lot of instances. Absolutely. But for me, I am committed to, I am committed to leaning into the difficult.

Spenser: yeah.

Cammie: So one thing that I had lean in to it, not to back away from it and not to deny it. And I remember when I met you, you felt like such a kindred spirit. And I just knew that I didn't want... I knew immediately just based on how connected I felt, um, you know, to your messaging, even that I didn't want to talk about fertility. I just knew that I could do meaningful work with you. And I was just hoping that you'd be willing to just work with me and that it didn't have to be about baby stuff. I remember you saying to me, well, you know, we don't have to do that. And I was like, Oh, thank you so much. I don't want to talk about the baby stuff. I don't want to talk about it. I don't want to talk about the baby stuff. And that's, you know, speaks to just who you are.

Spenser: Yeah. I'm not all about that. Like, I believe that fertility is life, right? That's what it is at the soul. At the very core, at the root of what is fertility, it is life, and when we are willing to, like you had said, and this is why I'm like, I need to talk to Cammie, cause like it's so full of so much depth and beauty, but leaning into those difficult processes. Not always that that's not always fertility and sometimes taking a step back from it, being all about the tracking and the diet and the, and being willing to explore the depths of where am I feeling heavy, like where one of the really good life coaching tools is like, does it feel shackles on or shackles off. Right. And we have certain areas in our lives where we feel like we're handcuffed and being willing to go into that instead of what our culture teaches us to do, which is just get over it just pretend it's not there.

Just sweep it under the rug, right. Just, um, pretend it's not happening. And maybe we consciously or subconsciously do that.

Cammie: We do it all the time... Let's go, let's go to four seasons. Yes. Let's have a great lunch. Okay. Let's shop. There's a sale at nordstrom. We do it right?

Spenser: Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah. Let's go have a drink. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, totally. And what do they say? I heard something the other day. That was like, the reason why we feel like things are difficult is because that difficult is trying to push you into another way. And I was talking to my dad and my dad is actually very he's, he's very, um, he's not necessarily spiritual, but we can talk about the depths of life and he said that with water, when it's going somewhere and it hits something high, it goes another way. It finds another way to get through. And it's like, when we are going and we hit that difficulty. It is being willing to find another way, saying okay,the reason why things feel difficult is because I'm being pushed to another direction from what's not feeling of integrity to my nature and to my spirit, and to my soul and what isn't giving me life and energy right now, and being willing to let it out.

Cammie: God, let it go. Let that go. Let it go. Let it go. You can either go with the flow or you can get dragged. And I am done with being dragged. I'm really clear about that. Go with the flow. And if the flow is taking you into an uncomfortable place, just go right with it.

Spenser: That is letting go. That is letting go, letting go is not rainbows and butterflies. That's what we don't fucking understand is letting go is leaning into the discomfort.

Cammie: Letting go, letting go. That it has to go the way that you ask and totally the way that you planned for it, the way that you thought it was supposed to be releasing it and letting it go. Because what our fear is is that if we let that go, then we've given into that. It's just not going to happen. You know, if some, if we hold on doggedly enough, if we hold on to it, doggedly enough, you know, that'll draw it what we want to us in some way.

Spenser: So true

Cammie: Rather than just letting it go.

Spenser: That's what our monkey minds want us to believe is that if I stop micromanaging, and I love that you use that term because it's so type a, which you know, you and I were both at one point and it still comes out of me, I'm not gonna lie, once in a while. Um, But if I do, then it won't happen. Right. And we all have that fear and it's okay to have that fear. And what I always say to make progress in that sense is to just take it one day at a time and we can't go from not trusting to trusting overnight. Right. So we need to take those small steps towards trust, which is like, okay, I'm going to let this one go.

I'm going to lean into where I'm having, you know, or I'm going to lean into some discomfort and then what you, it ends up playing out a lot better than you thought. And then that's when the trust begins to build.

Cammie: And it happens. It goes quicker. This is what I know, like I know, like I know, like I know when you lean into the uncomfortable places, it goes a lot faster than if you keep fighting against it. And it usually is not as hairy and scary over there as you thought it was going to be. You know, it's not usually, if you're willing to just lean in to it and not deny it and not keep running away from it and not keep distracting, you know, yourself from it just lean into that place. Go to it. I go straight toward the uncomfortable places. My husband thinks I'm crazy. I go straight to it. It's clearly, um, disturbing me and giving me trouble. I lead all the way into it. I, uh, what I love to say, I get eyeball to eyeball with that thing as quick as I can. What is this exactly? What is this? And where's this coming from? What is this?

Spenser: Yes, yes, yes. And that can begin with just curiosity. You don't have to have the solution, but be curious about why this feels difficult or be curious about what what's sticky about this situation, you know, and that's the solution. That is the solution is just being willing to look at it.

Cammie: Yes. Being willing to look at it is the solution. Being willing to acknowledge it because there's not something you have to get busy doing and fix, just acknowledge this difficult place, acknowledge it, be willing to be with it.

Spenser: Yeah.

Cammie: And if there is a fix that needs to happen, those things always show up independent of you. They always show up independent of you needing to do something. If there's a real fix, but every time you're willing to face what the little darkness in the corner is and always dissolves.

Spenser: Yeah. One of the steps, I think that one of the big lifestyle shifts, I think you need to make in order to be this presence in your life is to slow the fuck down because when we're so busy, getting everything done and being everything to everyone, caretaking, making sure partners good and taken care of, right. Making sure you're killing it at work house looks amazing. Food is perfectly organic and healthy. You have no fucking time to sit there and to feel it. And that's one of the reasons why I've created my program is because I'm like, we don't make this time for ourselves.

Cammie: Oh, in shambles child, in shambles, and looking fabulous in the shambles, the house is spotless, clean, your refrigerator looks like a Pinterest board. You are killing it at work. You're at all of the functions and events, you know, and it's in shambles inside and shambles inside and really not enjoying anything really, really, when you start to slow down. You know, when you really start to slow down realizing that you weren't a lot of that stuff you weren't even enjoying it.

Spenser: Yeah. So true. So true.

Cammie: You weren't even enjoying it anyway.

Spenser: And that's, that's the commitment that you made though with yourself, you know, yourself and how you've got to that depth. And what gives you the courage everyday to lean in is the work that you've done and the courage and the steps you've taken to say, to ask for help and to say, I'm ready for a new way.

Cammie: Let those things build. Yeah. Let that build. So I, you know, kind of uniquely have been doing it since I was 19. So I've had a long time to practice it. So I've been able to build, build on that.

Spenser: So it's, it's always been who you are. It's why there's so much depth and spiritual truth in your energy.

Cammie: So if you trust yourself with just one little thing, you can build on that for the next piece.

Spenser: Exactly. The trust is the baby steps, hundred percent.

Cammie: Yes. So before, you know, it you're like, Hey, you know what I can, I can absolutely can.

Spenser: Yeah. I think it's, uh, I, I really do. I'm learning as time goes on that fertility is a feminist issue. Like it really can be in the sense of, you know, going to the doctor and him telling you it's about your age and your weight, you know, and, and how we're treated and how it, it instills us with that type of perfectionist mentality that women are so, um, easy to just accept. I mean, I think that's where we can shift away from that cultural expectation of perfection and into the confidence of enough now.

Cammie: Well, and it really asking yourself, what is it that you want? So it's 2018, I've done some really juicy work with you. And for the rest of the year, I was literally working on opening my heart. Yes. In my heart space. When I tell you I was walking around with more Rose quartz in my bra and in my pocket and in my shower, this heart, it's going to be open child, by any means necessary. Just opening my heart. And I got really clear that, um, you know, um, this whole dogged, you know, clenched down tightness that I had around having a baby, you know, just white knuckling, my way, that I was done with it. First and foremost, I just acknowledged that emotionally, I don't have the bandwidth.

I just lost my mother and I, and I'm moving through this estate stuff now. And I've got to just allow myself some time to get through that. I don't need any other tasks to do. I don't need any other tasks to do

Spenser: Efforting. You were done efforting.

Cammie: I'm done with that. So I said, you know what? I'm not even thinking about that. I'm not even thinking about having a baby. And I really started to sit with the notion of if having a baby is for me, it will happen if that is for me, it will happen. And so I started just getting comfortable with that notion because at first when that, when it would come up, I would take it as, but we still really want a baby.

Spenser: I was going to say like, that's what we need to address because there are a lot of people that, there are a lot of people that are listening right now that are gonna say, like, I'd love to get to that point. So how did you get there?

Cammie: But you don't try to separate one from the other is what I learned. You know, I didn't have to just, it didn't have to be one way or the other way, right. Because I'm still a human and I still have to allow myself to feel and be whatever is true and authentic in the moment. So both of those things became true. If a baby is for me, it's going to happen. And I still really want to have a baby.

Spenser: Yeah. Yeah. Cause I got to that point too. So that's exactly...

Cammie: I really want to have a baby. And if it's for me, not even, but I really want to have a baby. And if it's, for me, it's going to happen. I've made space inside myself for both of those ideas and it didn't happen overnight. It didn't happen overnight. I, again, I sat with that notion and worked with it and felt it and lived with it for all, for the rest of 2018, you know, straight into 2019.

And by the time I got into 2019, it wasn't just, I really want to have a baby. And if it's for me, it's going to happen. Then another notion came that really excited me. Which was I have an amazing life!

Spenser: Yes. Okay. So this is, this is it. This is, this is the piece, right? So, so again, baby steps towards trust. And that was, you know, and this is really what, what I feel like what my work does at the core, with it, from the mindset and spiritual perspective is I shift, I help shift people's need for a baby to a happy, healthy desire. So that is what was your first step.

Cammie: That is exactly what it was. And I wouldn't have languaged it that way before now, but that's exactly what it was. It was a shift from a desperation, desperate, I mean desperate every month and ready to jump off the nearest curb every time my period came. The desperation to have a baby.

It shifted from that, too you know, I really want to have a baby. And if having a baby is for me, it's going to happen. And I have an amazing life. I have an amazing life. I have an amazing life. So here I'm like, you know, I have an amazing husband that I love, that I love and that I, like, you know, that I want to be with and be around. And we have everything that we need to just live our best lives, footloose and fancy free, and just really enjoy ourselves. I got so excited about it. Got so excited about it. I released 40 pounds, bought the best bathing suit that I could find, planned an elaborate vacation. We, we, I mean, we went all the way with that. A complete luxury resort style, um, vacation to Mexico. I mean, I'm just like, Oh my God, we are getting ready to live our best life.

And I'm pregnant out of no where! Out of nowhere, pregnant, wasn't planning, wasn't tracking, didn't even care and I'm pregnant and I couldn't even believe it.

Spenser: I remember you sent me your 10 week video ultrasound. And oh my God, your son was like, do you remember that one? And he was like, bouncing off the walls. I was like, I didn't even know babies can do that at 10 weeks old.

Cammie: He couldn't have been in reality. He was like the size of a grain of rice. And this joker was lit. I mean, he was all the motion was body rolling and all around.

And so, you know, just making some choices and I really want, you know, the women who are listening to this to understand, it's not that the fear doesn't come, that the thought about, am I going to make it this time? It's not that that isn't there, that it's not ever present, but don't put that expectation on yourself. Don't even put that expectation on yourself, but you get to decide how you're going to be with yourself. And with those thoughts, every time they show up, you get to decide. And if you give into whatever the thought or the fear or the thing is that's okay.

Spenser: Yes. Yeah, totally. Okay. That's okay too. Yeah.

Cammie: That's okay too.

Spenser: Like letting go of the resistance of what it's supposed to look and feel like, you know. Pregnancy after loss can be, you do have a choice. Um, it's not to say though that you, I always say we don't ever want to place that expectation of no anxiety or, um, no fears because that's not reality.

Even when your baby is here and your baby is coming here to feel feelings and emotions. And sometimes that's fear and sometimes that's anxiety even, right. And sometimes that's doubts and worry and that's okay. That's why your baby made the choice to come here, but we don't want to resist those parts of ourselves either.

It's not about again, that's the beauty though. And Cammie that's what you learned on the fertility journey is that once you do get pregnant doing it a completely different way, the trust is like through the roof. You're like, wow, this is magic.

Cammie: And it's not dependent on me. I had had enough miscarriages to know, and I had had enough to know this isn't on me.

So if this joke is coming, this joke is coming all its own. It has a purpose. This, this, this being has a purpose for coming here and it doesn't have anything to do with me because I've done that. Yeah, I've done that thing. And that didn't produce a child. It doesn't have anything to do with what I'm doing or not.

It doesn't have anything to do with what I do or don't do because what I was tuned into including to and zeroed in on is that I made an invitation at some point... It was no longer about being desperate to have a baby, but I made it an invitation to be a vessel. I just said, I'm a vessel I am here and if life wants to come through me, I invite you at some point I made an invitation.

Spenser: Yeah. And I have to say though, like, you know, Cammie and that I can relate so much to the conception story because it was very sad. I feel the exact same way in the sense of, I wasn't trying either. I mean, it was just, yeah, we were trying in the sense of, we were having unprotected sex and I would've loved to get pregnant, but it wasn't, I mean, I stopped tracking. Probably honest to God years, before I had gotten pregnant. Right. And I can relate so much to your story. And what I think is so important and what they're going to want, what these listeners are going to want to hear more than anything is that how much real estate was that taking up in your brain when you were like, for me, it was like very little where I was like, thinking about being the vessel or even intentionally wanting to create this baby.

It was almost like it was this thing that had, it was like probably taking out like 20% of the real estate in my brain where it was just this beautiful want. And I had gotten to the point where I knew it was going to happen. I just didn't know when. And I think that's what people are going to really want to hear is that I wasn't, like, affirming every minute of every day this baby will come when it's ready. Like, I had so much going on in my life that. It was, it was almost like a side thing. And did like, was it, I guess it was a very deep desire. Like it was a very deep desire and a yearning to have this baby, but it wasn't taking up all of the real estate in my brain anymore. And that's what it sounds like for, for you as well.

Cammie: I remember, I remember the day, I remember the day that I let the desperation go...

Spenser: Oh, wow.

Cammie: My body, I had a physical reaction to it. I had a physical reaction to it. I'd had a conversation with my husband and I said, I just want to let you know that I think I'm done with the baby thing. I think I'm done with, I don't want to see anymore doctors. I don't want to do anymore, you know, injections or tracking, you know, because it becomes, you know, I'm ovulating, let's head upstairs. I said, I just wanted to let you know that I'm I think I'm done with that. And I'm starting to get really excited about just me and you, our life. Our life. I'm getting really excited about that. And so if you are interested, I'd love for us to just talk about how we can live our best life for the rest of this year.

Spenser: And that's what the podcast was about. Like right. The podcast. My partner is very similar in the sense of can we, because if you're here and if you're in this space, but your partner isn't, there's still going to be a fucking disconnect. There's going to be a conflict. If they're saying let's make this baby, come on, let's do it now. And you're like, but I'm happy now, you know, it's not gonna, it's not gonna work. There needs to be a conversation.

Cammie: Got it. There has to be a conversation. And so I wanted him, if he wasn't on board with how I was feeling, I just wanted him, I wanted to hear it. I wanted to know it. And I wanted him to be able to express where he was and how he felt.

Spenser: I think what this boils down to Cammie is, and tell me where I'm wrong with this, like, what I'm feeling; the theme of this is, is that, and this is the thing. Okay. So you learn to love your life.

And we did a really cool exercise on that, right? So it was called the ideal day. Yeah. So I'm uploading that, like it's on my list of new content to add to fFertility Mind-Body Mastery. And that's because you, you messaged me and you were like, that was everything for me. And, it was this exercise that I take you through an ideal day, but I ask you a series of questions in which it makes it easier for you to get access to that side.

And I remember for you what stood out from like, cause I've done the exercise a lot, but I remember you wanted so much cozy and comfy and it was like, it was so cool. You were just like, I just want to be like blankets on that couch. And I just, and to me, you know, that's like, I just wanted to feel safe and warm and nurtured. And like that was, I remember that being the theme. And it's funny. I always remember the ideal day exercises I do with women because it's, it's so remarkable how different they are, but how everything, something always stands out about some of them. And it's so cool. And so it's an exercise in which it really helps you get clear on the life you do want, because you're, maybe you're thinking right now, your whole identity is fertility that you don't even know what else you want.

So we did that exercise and that gave you access to what there's a, there's another, I can have, I can shift my focus to something else. So for you, I felt like throughout those, you know, years from your loss to your losses, to having and holding Carson. Who is, how old is he right now? He's just turned one not long ago.

Cammie: He just turned one! He just turned one!

Spenser: We both have pandemic babies. Um, but yeah, you learned how to, and I wrote this down, feel safe, shifting your focus away from baby-making and that is that safety needs to be established. You can't just shift your focus. You need to learn how to trust and feel safe in that.

Cammie: Exactly. The trust and safety. Yeah. And it's not those things aren't easy to come by. Right. Like I totally get it. I totally get it because I think that's a lesson that we get to learn over and over and over again. Just about, about different things. You know, trust and safety over and over again. We get to learn that, you know, multiple times and through, you know, multiple avenues, we get to learn that and you know, you don't build it overnight.

Spenser: Yes.

Cammie: You know, but it also doesn't take forever.

Spenser: Yeah. Ooh, very good. You don't build it overnight, but it also doesn't take forever. And that's what our black and white thinking does, the all or nothing. The it's it's um, It's, you know, it either has to happen overnight, right. This monkey mind. So either, either it happens tomorrow or it's never going to happen. And so I think that's what's... why that's so important for you to have bring that up is that we do have that all or nothing thinking, and it doesn't happen overnight, but it, um, it doesn't take forever.

Cammie: It doesn't take forever. It really doesn't. If you give in just as much as you're able to right now, just as much as you're able to right now, you know, it's progress just, yeah. That's progress just a little bit, just a little bit, as much as you're able to, you know, because my being open and letting go, isn't the next woman's being open and letting go. You know?

Spenser: Yes. Right. But what separates you, I think Cammie, is you've always been able to ask for help. Like you said, you've started doing that at 19 years old.

Cammie: Knowing that you cannot do it alone, knowing that there are some things that need to be reconciled that you and you just can't do it by yourself.

Spenser: You can't see it. Right. So I think that's why you've been on such a trajectory of growth and the spiritual and, you know, development and also just personal development and why you are, you know, a mom to Carson right now is, is the willingness to say, okay, things feel difficult. There's gotta be another way. Asking for help and then leaning into the difficulty of what comes up.

Cammie: Whatever shows up, being willing to, you know, look at it and being willing to look and be willing to say, okay, because see, what could have happened when you said to me, um, but do you have to get ready to fight all the time? And my immediate response was like, yes I do. And you said, that's bullshit. Yeah. I could have just fought on. No, no, no. You don't understand you don't. But when you made that second challenge, I couldn't deny..... Whoa. I could look at this a whole other way.

Spenser: Yeah. One of the exercises I do is when I'm talking to, you know, when I'm talking to you is, is understanding who your life is with that closed heart versus who you would be with an open heart and what your life would look like. And it's so important to see the contrast of those two lives and realizing the part you have in your life right now, because you do play a role and you do have a choice. And I think that's what you're saying is you

Cammie: have to leave. You have a choice and when it comes, surrender, because I could have fought you. I could have made it about you. Right. I could've made it about you and what you were saying. And it would have been justified, honey. I could have ripped that whole thing apart. If I, if that's what I chose to do, if that's what I want it to do to justify to be self-righteous. I could have justifiably challenged what you were saying. Um, and that happens a lot in the therapeutic process when you're met with that real nugget of truth, not just the, you know, comfortable, somebody is just gonna listen to you vent. But then when you are met with the right question or met with a real nugget of truth, are you going to surrender and that it's happening constantly. You saw that you saw that you felt that, are you going to surrender? Ask, are we going to inquire about what that was? Something just moved in the corner.

Spenser: Yeah. What is, when, when is, like you said it happened constantly, but how do you, for some reason this is coming up, how do you interpret those moments? Like, what does it feel like in the body when those moments come, the turning point, the potential turning point, what does that feel like to you when that happens to you in your life?

Cammie: Everything for me happens in the gut. Yeah. Literally happens in the stomach. Yeah. Everything for me. So as soon as I get tight in that, as soon as I get tight in the stomach, I start asking what was that? What was that? What was that? Yeah. I don't ever hesitate to say, Oh no. What was that?

Spenser: What do you say to those women who are like, Oh yeah, fuck. Easier said than done guys. Like, Oh yeah, you guys just, you know, You went through it. Yeah. Like I get that. And you've been through the trenches, but like, what do you say to the people, the women who are saying this feels, getting to that space feels impossible right now. That surrendered state that we're talking about, whatever the path to least resistance is for you right now, please take it.

Cammie: Yeah. Whatever that is. Right. Whatever, whatever feels good, whatever it is right now, if that means logging off of this podcast and laying down and taking a nap, right. Whatever that is. Just do that one thing and it doesn't have to be a huge, big thing. I'm not telling you to, you know, cancel, cancel your subscription to your premium protein for your smoothie every morning. If that's what you feel like you need right now to stay sane, then do that. But just be aware, be aware. It's not like, Oh, you have to cut, throw everything away. Sometimes it's just being aware.

Spenser: So true.

Cammie: Be aware and whatever falls away, naturally let that happen. Whatever, whatever falls away or falls out, naturally that one piece of your whole, you know, routine that you got going, that you can't seem to remember. You can't remember it. It keeps going undone. Maybe just let it fall away. Let that one thing fall away. Whatever the path is to lightness for you right now, just do that one thing.

Spenser: That feels so fucking counterintuitive though, to what we're taught. That's the crazy thing, right? It's that? They're going to say that feels so weird to like follow my bliss, follow pleasure, follow, rest, follow relaxation.

Cammie: You don't even have to buy what we're saying, lock, stock and barrel. You don't have to buy what I'm saying, lock, stock, and barrel right now. Just the one thing you could do right now, that's going to feel completely light for you that you could just let go. Let that shit go. Boom. Let it go. Just stop it. You don't have to do that anymore. If you don't want to.

Spenser: I love that. Thank you so much Cammie, it was so much fun.

Cammie: Oh, thank you so much. I'm just honored. I'm just completely honored and excited about being able to, first of all, to just connect with you and catch up. You know, to be able to have this really candid conversation again, put it into the airspace in the airways for all of those mama bears to connect to.

Spenser: Yeah, well, you got a lot of magic and I had to share it. So thank you.


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