Ditch the "perfect" fertility diet.
Hey mama-bear,
Imagine this…
You go to bed at night…satisfied. No hunger. You wake up refreshed. You have NO guilt around what you ate the day before. No more gluten-shaming yourself. A “perfect diet” is no longer your target, and this makes you feel as though your body is enough and ready for pregnancy – despite eating foods on the “no-go-fertility” list. You feel open. You ARE open.
In simpler terms, your worthiness is not determined by your diet.
For real though – do you even know how much drama you (and all women) have around food and the mental story around what they put in their mouths?
It’s not your fault though. Diet culture is a $71 BILLION industry. We’ve been conditioned to restrict, withhold and be as small as possible (physically, mentally and emotionally) since we were little girls. And without a doubt, the fertility journey will make this pressure stronger.
So what’s the alternative to food shaming/food drama/food guilt?
In this weeks podcast, I interviewed Deanna. Deanna is a dietician that specializes in ditching diets, cultivating gentle nutrition and learning intuitive eating.
I asked her ALL the questions like:
How to let go of guilt around food.
What exactly is intuitive eating?
How to aim for body neutrality over body positivity.
Why you don’t have to eat perfectly to be healthy.
If you want to learn how to change your relationship with food – even after decades of conditioning – this podcast will teach you what’s possible.
Because your worthiness is not dependent on your diet.
It’s time to let that patriarchal shit go.
Xo Spenser
Listen to the full episode:
full episode transcript:
Welcome to the Fertile Ground podcast with Spenser Brassard, the only podcast that teaches you how to get your mind and body on board so you can get your baby on board. And now, here's your host, mind-body fertility expert and certified life coach, Spenser Brassard.
Spenser: Hi guys, we are back. Welcome to another episode of the Fertile Ground podcast. We have a very, I'm so excited for this conversation with Deanna. We are so happy to have you part of the podcast. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself?
Deanna: Sure. Thanks, Spenser, I'm super excited to be here. I am a registered dietician, so I really help women improve their relationship with food, Food Freedom Breakthrough. There are almost 500 women, over 500 women now have been through the program to just release their food fears, finally understand their metabolism and get back to gentle nutrition. So we really focus on intuitive eating, body confidence, and all the things that as women we grew up feeling shameful of. So that's what I do. I also love to coach other dieticians and experts in their field how to create an online business. I kind of started a while ago and people have kind of asked how have you done what you did? I now have a team of eight, so I just am so blessed with how my business has grown and it's growing even more right now as I think about having a baby girl in two months.
Spenser: Congratulations! I am just really big believer that babies make you more money because you don't fuck around. Like when you have your time to work, you work, there's no screwing around. So I actually have become more successful in my business the year that I had my son.
Deanna: Go girl!
Spenser: So, yeah. Right. So it's, it's, it's like everything against what culture taught us.
Deanna: Yeah, I get that question a lot. And I'm, if I'm recording a podcast with pregnancy Q and A's and I got that question a lot is how are you going to be a business owner and a mom?
Spenser: Wow.
Deanna: Yeah. So I just think it's great to be able to have that discussion. And I don't, I really don't know what it's like. This is my first child. I have no idea, but I am just working hard right now to higher on more, delegate more.
Spenser: Exactly, ask for help. Totally amazing. You're killing it. So happy to have you here. Thank you. This is, like everything you said as you introduced yourself, I was like, this is such a new narrative. When it comes to our relationship with food. You said gentle nutrition. I'm just like, oh my gosh. I just love everything about that. So one thing that really brought me on to, and got me really intrigued by this is the diagnosis of how do you say orthorexia?
Deanna: Orthorexia.
Spenser: Orthorexia, which is an eating disorder that involves an unhealthy obsession with healthy eating. And so when you are on the fertility journey, you become completely obsessed with eating perfectly. And if not, you blame yourself if you're not pregnant that month. So, I mean, we'll go a lot deeper into this conversation, but what are your thoughts about that eating disorder and what are some signs that we can look for around that relationship with food.
Deanna: Great. Great question. Honestly, it's interesting because orthorexia is not actually formally recognized.
Spenser: I saw that.
Deanna: Yeah. So but it really is that obsession with clean eating, right. Even when I was first becoming a dietician, I graduated in 2012. Clean eating was kind of what everybody was doing, right. That can take on an obsession, even for myself and many clients, counting calories to an extreme, counting macros, right. Macros has been a really popular thing in social media. That's kind of stress-free right. But then it leads to extra guilt around, you know, extra fat in your meals or not enough protein. Right. And just, and you can't go out to eat with your friends, right. You can't have spontaneous.
Spenser: You can't have a life!
Deanna: Yeah, exactly. You can't be a normal eater anymore. And that's what I think a lot of women struggle with is, how do I focus on health without it taking over my life? And how do I focus on my health without it only being about the scale weight. And that's really what I preach in my programs. And yes, orthorexia is very common these days, especially with the pressure we put on ourselves as women. I think that the term was only coined in, you know, recently really where it's just taking. Health to an extreme where you can't live your life and intuitive eating is really taking that back.
It's not a diet, it's not, and I think sometimes people get confused with what intuitive eating is, is that it's just eating whatever, whenever. When in reality, it's really just taking back the, the thought of you having to calculate every, you know, it's, it's taking out the numbers so much from nutrition and more listening internally to, you know, hunger fullness. To you know, how thinking more about body neutrality than always needing to have a positive body image or an or negative. So it's really that. I hate to say like the gray area, but there's lots of nutrition pieces in it.
Spenser: We're not comfortable in gray!
Deanna: Orthorexia is honestly, very common in all my clients I work with.
Spenser: Yeah, I would even say I would definitely see that falling into I was definitely there so much on my fertility journey. And I actually think that I have a little bit of like PTSD in my hyper awareness I have around symptoms in my body. Right. Because you're so obsessed with symptom checking when you're also on the fertility journey. So we talked a little bit about intuitive eating, so. What is it? Like, I know you said, oh, it sounds so gray and like it's frustrating in that sense. How do people trust themselves to do it?
Deanna: Honestly, most women that I work with have been dieting since they were 10, 11, 12, right? Whether it was, there's so many things that impact why we start dieting or why we start restricting. But I mean, intuitive eating is really just 10 principles. It was created by two amazing women dieticians. And there's a book about it. Can be hard. Yeah. It's called intuitive eating. It can be hard to just take that book and, you know, run with it yourself. So I always say really invest in a dietician that specializes in it or, you know, a program. So there's just like kind of key steps around, you know, rejecting the diet mentality, honoring your hunger, you know, challenging the food police and then gentle nutrition is a part of that. So how can you honor, you know, planning meals and still, you know, having nutritious food and you're in your diet without it being stressful anymore.
So it's not a diet because we just focus on like taking back healthy food from a diet culture too. Right.
Spenser: Interesting.
Deanna: Yeah. And even, I, I share a lot on my page. Just some of the things that we think are healthy and we take to the extreme, like cauliflower rice, right? Like only eating egg whites and never eating the egg yolk. And I don't know what you were focused on. I would love to hear even like what some of your rules were when you were on your fertility journey.
Spenser: Gosh, I'll tell you what my rules weren't. I mean, I tried all the diets. I tried them all. I tried vegan. I tried paleo. I tried Whole 30. I tried autoimmune, more of an auto-immune diet. I was on not fully, but like an 80, 20 lot of more fats, you know, that's what I was on when I got pregnant with my son. But I didn't feel restricted at all because I was just, I loved, I loved how I felt when I was choosing to eat those foods. But I still like, and I, and I tell everyone this, I still have, I still had a cocktail. They still had coffee. Cause I, I couldn't, I personally can't survive when everything I love is taken away from me, like that's why my whole motto is how to help you get pregnant without it taking over your life. Right. Because I believe that fertility and creating a baby is about expansion and not restriction.
Deanna: Yes.
Spenser: And so if we're constantly restricting and telling ourselves no, how can we be in the energy of, of getting bigger, physically and mentally and emotionally. Right. So I tried them all. Definitely. I mean, that was, that was something that I, I God. Yeah. Like, holy I just a month, like, I'm getting flashbacks as we're talking right now about all the different, all the different ones.
Deanna: Sometimes we put that much stress on food or when we cut out everything we love, right. I always talk about, Hey, instead of PB2, peanut butter powder, like, that's great if you true love it. But if you actually love peanut butter, let's talk about how those nutrients are supporting you in this, you know, especially if you're working on getting pregnant and fats are so important, right? So just some of the swaps that we think are for health, right? Just all about numbers or, you know, well, I have to lose this, these last five pounds. When you know, you, you can be healthy, eating real peanut butter and things that aren't just like lower calorie anymore.
Spenser: I think what I love so much about your work as it gets you out of your head and into your body.
Deanna: Yes.
Spenser: Right? Like out of analyzing, out of researching, out of trying to be the best and perfect, and let's let's instead start to begin to trust our body. You said honor your hunger, but honoring your hunger is just honoring your body.
Deanna: Most women are scared to honor their body. They're scared. They're exhausted. We're exhausted of, you know, dieting and trying new dieting tactics. And we don't know how to listen and trust our body. And that's, those are some of like the success stories that I'm blown away by when women are like, you've taken the confidence for me, for myself and nutrition and its seeped into every other area of my life. Seeps into the meetings. I, you know, I'm not, I don't have the smallest one anymore. Like that doesn't make me successful.
Spenser: That's an interesting thing. I heard that once, that women go into a room and they like say, okay, who, where am I compared to the sizes? I've heard someone say that that's what they do. And it just like, I don't even think we realize how much that drives our lives. I think that's beautiful that it seeps into it. So, so basically women take their power back when they say no to diet culture.
Deanna: Girl, that should be like my motto. I love it.
Spenser: And gain that confidence that they need, which is all so much tied to fertility. So they're like, everyone who's listening right now. Again is like, oh my God, this is so good. Okay, but what do I do with all the guilt? Like what do I do now? How do I start to rewire my brain? Cause that's what people are doing right, when they work with you, I assume. They're literally having to rewire new neural pathways to create safety with foods that were always labeled as quote unquote bad, right?
Deanna: Right.
Spenser: So how do they, how do they let go of the guilt that, how does, how do they start to rewire their brain there?
Deanna: So I work through three main phases and the first one really is reframing your mind around what you thought health was compared to what happened. So a lot, like the very first step honestly, is just like your core values. Like, what do you want to be remembered by? And that's like a very simple one. We've all locked deeper into what does a non diet mentality feel like around food versus like before you eat? Right. Like a lot of women, when they first start, it's like, Ooh, this sandwich is going to go straight to my thighs or stomach. Right? What about instead I can trust my body. My body knows how to handle calories. Right? A lot of it is reframing your thinking about calories, being those little things that you know, that you've seen the memes where it says calories sew your clothes tighter at night or whatever.
Spenser: Oh my gosh.
Deanna: Actually calories are just energy. Like you know, as a lot of people think as dieticians, we're like, oh, like calories don't count, but no calories count. And that's a good thing. Calories are literally just fuel for your body to give you energy throughout the day and just reframing food and calories and numbers and all of that, like swirling it around and throwing it out and being like, this is actually how you can, you know, take health and, you know, instead of, well, how is this snack only 200 calories.v
It's more about, will this snack give me energy for what I have later, you know, going on later on? You know, am I mindful enough right now? Right? If you're consumed, we talk a lot about emotional eating. If you're so consumed about the stress from your day or your kids or your spouse or family, things that you truly can't be present in that moment with food, maybe it's not the most opportune time to eat for you. Maybe you need to test that first. You can decide, Hey, I want the chips, right? So we need to decide, or if you want the chips, how can you make that more satisfying? Right. Having them with some hummus or something like that. So where gentle nutrition comes in where we need to give permission, you know, permission to, you know, unconditional permission,
Spenser: Unconditional permission. I love it.
Deanna: You get what I'm saying, that unconditional permission of all foods, but then once you do start to trust your body a little bit more, you're realizing, Hey, I actually, salads aren't diet culture anymore. I actually am creating a salad. That's the wins I love to see too, or women are like, I've had Ben and Jerry's in my freezer for three months and I forgot about it or this bag of chips because I'm eating a salad instead. So those are kind of some of the wins.
Spenser: I love that. I love that. Now I'm just speaking for everyone else because I can hear all of their voices going. But what about those? But what about this? What about this? Cause this is where I was right, and honestly, like, let's be real. Like I said, I still have some PTSD around it or, or like that I've been so overly conditioned around health.
Spenser: So in the fertility industry, there's, you know, I'm very honest and open about how much I hate how they strive for perfection. Right? Like we can't allow any gluten, any dairy, any soy, any sugar any caffeine, any alcohol. How, and, and mostly it's promoted that way for gut health. Right. And cause gut has so much to do with fertility in, you know, according to the experts of the, the people, the nutritionist who really focus on fertility. So you're not like you're not saying the extreme, right? Like you're not saying fuck healthy eating by any means. And you're not saying be the healthiest that you can be your, your, your, your speaking much to that gray area, which I assume is very individual for each person. Right? And so how can, how can we, I'll speak for all of us here, start to introduce those foods without panicking and feeling like a piece of shit when he wake up the next morning, I'll put it bluntly, but it's true.
Deanna: And you're spot on. Right? So I am definitely, I will refer other people. Like if you're dealing with severe gut issues and things that potentially are aren't in my scope, I will say work with, you know, somebody else who really specializes in that. So of course, as a dietician, we all have our specialties, but for me, when women come to me, a lot of times their bloating is actually because they've cut out so many foods that when they try to eat those foods again, that's why they're bloating, not so much that they're getting reactions from the food, but it's that they're so restrictive most of the time that then that, that's why they're bloating, not so much of like you have allergies to these foods. Right? A lot of honestly, as, as dieticians, a lot of those food sensitivity, sensitivity tests are really not that reliable.
Spenser: So that's what I've heard as well.
Deanna: Yeah. So again, you know, to cut out all of those things, First of all, when I work to reintroduce foods for clients that they're very off limits, it is saying, okay, one to 10, like, what is the easiest food for you to introduce back in, in a realistic way? Right. You know, I don't know. Tell me some of like your fear of food Spenser. Like what would they be?
Spenser: Well, it always like a really hot topic, I think is coffee. Ah, like a huge one because, like me, I absolutely love my coffee. And when I took it away, I was a monster. I was just, I was literally a monster. And so, yeah. What would you say about that?
Deanna: What I usually do is say, is coffee like the hardest thing that you could reintroduce back into your life. In a like, moderate way, right? Is it like all or nothing still with you with coffee? Could you work to start with, you know, decaf and seeing if you love that, could you work with like half caf, half decaf?
So it's something small. So I always say like, what's the easiest thing you can reintroduce into your lifestyle. Versus the hardest thing, right? Let's start with the easiest. And a lot of people think intuitive eating or, you know, bash, you know, bashing diet culture, like overcoming diet culture. Fuck it right. I'm going to eat everything. I'm gonna go to the store and buy cookies.
So instead let's work to, to have one in, in moderation, right? So even. Myself, right. I it's funny, you said coffee cause I had to cut caffeine out because it was giving me so much anxiety. So I'm always drinking decaf. So that's probably not a good word. We're a little different in that, but I would say, you know, what, what is the research behind actually caffeine with, you know, this whole process and maybe it was that you loved it so much. You were having a ton of it. And can you focus on water? You know, lemon water first, you know, then your cup of decaf, like just finding a way to bring it in.
Spenser: You can. I, so that's what I ended up doing is I actually ended up adding, had food with it, so never had it on an empty stomach. I added collagen to it and coconut milk to give it some fat. Yeah. And I drank it through like conception, pregnancy and still, yeah, I have one cup a day. Love it. I found a way to introduce the foods that I love back. And then, like I say, when I had a cocktail, I like had a cocktail. I was like present. I was mindful. I was with that margarita and we were dancing, you know, like we were, it was like a, a beautiful moment as opposed to the guilt that we can when we do allow ourselves to have those foods. Right.
Deanna: Thank you for saying that. One of my takeaways for clients is be in the restaurant, right? Like I think a lot of, so instead of your brain being like, well, do I need to run extra tomorrow? Right? Like, you're thinking about like the recourse already so that's one of the steps you were asking, like, how do you get rid of that guilt? Be in the restaurant or be in that moment where I think with a lot of people who are dieting, it is how can I make up for this tomorrow? What I, what do I need to cut out tomorrow?
Or what did I do before that? Did I skip all my carbs all day so that I could have chips and salsa tonight. Right. And now I'm overdoing it. Right. So it's always interesting when I hear people saying, Hey, I'm actually eating more, but I'm over eating less. Right. More consistent with just overall health rather than it being these all or nothing or extremes, which I see a lot.
Spenser: Yeah. Yeah. Right. And I think that's actually probably what we're all really talking about right now because a lot of people on the fertility journey are, are perfectionist or working on a perfectionist mentality. And one of the big parts of that is all or nothing. Right. And anything less than 99% or a hundred percent is a failure. Right. That's a whole kind of bit over all or nothing thinking. So how can we begin to give ourselves that grace?
Deanna: I honestly, it's a work in progress for everyone, you know, and I work a lot with clients who maybe have, you know, lost their period or are really hard on themselves. Struggle with perfectionism, very similar to my clientele. So a lot of times they've done everything else, other than looking at the stress in our life. So for me.
Spenser: Yes, yes. Yeah. And I, I try to fix everything on the outside instead of just taking a look inside.
Deanna: And it's what I did, you know, I lost my period for years and years and went to so many. I did a brain scan. I did, you know, they checked out my uterus, MRIs and, and nobody told me, well, how much stress are you putting on your body? Are you working out a lot. Right. Are you probably not fueling with enough calories? And so it's not just stress being, and I think you probably talk about this and your program is not just stress being oh, I'm so stressed out. It's how much stress is your mental being from all of the rules and all of the restrictions?
Spenser: So different. Yes. There's a big difference between the two.
Deanna: Yeah. So I don't know what the original question was, but that's really like when I see clients is what they're dealing with is they've done, you know, they've switched out all of their cleaning products in their house or that, and I'm like, well, have you thought about maybe eating a little bit more, you know, and, and taking a rest day.
Spenser: Right, exactly. Slowly down.
Deanna: Yeah. I love that. Even my husband tells that to me sometimes right now is like, give yourself grace. Like, what would you say to a client? Because sometimes we all need that.
Spenser: Yeah, exactly. I will always be down for a nap. So let's talk a little bit about gut health, because it is such a big thing in the fertility industry.
But if someone was having, or coming to you with, with gut issues, which you had said, like, we talked a little bit about it with the bloating. But like a lot of people have a very mild form of IBS. IBS is something that's hard to diagnose and really doctors, in my opinion, don't have much of a solution to that whatsoever. So when it comes to gut health, what are some things that we can do? You know, I know you had mentioned sometimes that we're so restrictive that adding something back in that's where you see the reaction. Right. But what are some other tools that we can use with that? Cause I know like. A lot of people say that in the gut, there's like that whole other brain that lives there. Right. And how much of the stress does involve our gut in our ability to digest and metabolize. So what are some ways that we can improve our gut health without restricting, restricting, restricting?
Deanna: Yeah. Great question. Honestly, it's I always think like to think of it, like adding things in, instead of taking things out. So instead of well I got to cut out, you know, sugar and, and every, you know, everything from my diet it's well, what could you add in to make yourself, you know, feel a little bit better? Like, are you eating, like, I love sauerkraut and I love probiotics. Right, right. And so if I talk about probiotics, people are like, oh, which one do you recommend? Well, I recommend like food, food first, right? So of course there are some great probiotics. If you feel like you hate sauerkraut or you don't like kombucha, you know, and all the things with probiotics, but those are really great. And are you, you know, are you getting enough fruits and vegetables in, in the day?
Right? I just think a lot of women who are on this journey are still struggling with you know, just not eating a good amount of fruits and vegetables or potentially eating way too many, right? Like having the biggest salad I've ever seen every single day and that's triggering their IBS. So it's like, for me, it's seeing like a 24 hour recall and just kind of being like, okay, like, I can pinpoint it because of my years of schooling, without it potentially being somebody already telling me, well, I cut out this, this, this, this. And I'm like, well, how about we add in this here? You know? And I love that you talked about coffee on an empty stomach. I have a lot of people who drink coffee in the morning and then it's, you know, blunt their appetite then they're anxious all morning, like, you know, coffee with food is great, you know, or food, and then coffee, rather than like relying on coffee as your energy for the whole morning. That's not a great way either; not great for your gut health. So some, just some of those like really, really, really simple that I come back to and then like, I love like really powerful, like smoothies and snacks. So I don't ever say like, Hey, just like have a snack of chips. I'm like, how can you combine that to make it feel better for you as well, to like, rather than just having like a juice or doing a juice cleanse, like make a filling smoothie with like some cashew butter or almond butter in it, you know, instead of like PB2 or instead of only doing like the celery juice.
Spenser: Right, right, right, right. I like what you say is like, give yourself some substance. It's like, we withhold so much from our bodies when they're really just asking for love and appreciation and acceptance. And I know that's like a big extreme for someone who, who, you know, may have a difficult relationship with their body right now or has in the past. So can you talk a little bit about body neutrality? Cause I love body neutrality and I, I completely agree with you. I think in this space it's like body love space. Like you have to love your body is a big extreme for someone who hasn't or doesn't, and there's no shame if you don't, because you've been culturally conditioned to not like your body. So that is, there's no shame in this space whatsoever, but can you talk a little bit about body neutrality?
Deanna: I want to ask you, do you feel like you are body neutral?
Spenser: I feel like it's a work in progress. For me. I recently went shopping last week and bought like a pair of jeans that just fit. Like, I didn't go with a size that I wanted to go. I just bought a pair of jeans that fit great. And I've been wearing those jeans nonstop and I am like loving, just not being like in this restriction of clothes, as opposed to being comfortable in my clothes.
Deanna: More my favorite, like tweets I posted on my Instagram is just buy the size that doesn't make you feel like you're cut in half, really. And it's just so interesting. Like you can be literally 14 different sizes in every different store store, just the number in our head. Again, it's like that number thing that we're so obsessed with.
So body neutrality for me and my programs is the first step to ever, you may never get to body love. You may never get to body positivity. Right. Especially if you've been really hard on yourself or, you know, you feel like
Spenser: Your body's failed you.
Deanna: Yeah. Yeah. My metabolism is completely broken. Right. And we walk through that in my program. Like what will, what does that mean? What actually like is, you know, is metabolic damage a thing? No it's actually not, you know, you're usually it's just adapting to what you've done to it. So again body neutrality is really that first step you have to come to is how can I one. like realize that I am more than a body, which can be really hard when we're comparing ourselves to maybe our old body in high school, college, 20, before. Right. So it's like knowing that your body is there to be like a great shell of yourself, but it's not your whole self. You can still be successful in a, right, like we talked a little bit about having the confidence seep from nutrition and your body into other realms of your life where, you know, I think for so long, I thought to be successful in my career, I had to look a certain way or wear a certain size. Right. And I think a lot of women feel that like, because, because so many years we've been congratulated for losing weight. Like it's the best we can do.
Spenser: Seriously.
Deanna: And so I really, my approach to trying to educate people is can we stop talking about other bodies? Right? Can we instead say, you know, the energy you've given me today is amazing or you look, you know, just so happy. What have you been? You know, what are you, what are you doing?
Other than you're smaller or you're so small, you know, or you can be so tiny. Like that's the best thing that we can do as women. And I even saw, you know, I know you do have a lot of like people working to, to get, you know, pregnant or. Pregnant women or maybe have kids already. I found this really interesting, you know, recent video about how a women, a woman dressed her girl up more in men's clothes.
Or like boys, you know, it was like gender neutral clothes. And that people would keep telling the child like, oh wow, you're so smart. Like, you're going to go so far in life. I saw that when they put her in like girl's clothes, they'd be like, you're so pretty. Your hair is so beautiful. And I was like, this is mind blowing because this is what we grew up with as women is the best thing we could do is look great.
Right? Yeah. Body neutrality is trying to just get rid of that and say, how can you respect yourself without it being X size, X weight on a scale, without you feeling like you might have to lose weight to be loved, or to go on vacation or to get the job of your dreams, it's taking out your value from the equation.
Spenser: So it's, it's taking out your body from your level of worthiness.
Deanna: Yeah.
Spenser: Gotcha
Deanna: And thinking, Hey, one more thing. I really want people to take away body trends, change every two months a year, right. So think about when you're 80 years old and the body trend is something else. And you're like, why couldn't I have just loved how unique my body was when I was 20, 30, 40, 50, whatever. Instead of feeling like I had to fit this mold or trend you know, where the Kardashians are really in now, but you know, 10 years ago it was Kate Moss. So just embrace what you got. I love that.
Spenser: That's true. So let's talk a little bit, I just want to change gears a bit into the relationship that we have with our periods. And, and we talked a little bit about that before we started the podcast, but just the whole, I guess for me, I was, it was really, again, drilled into us to like, have a perfect period when you're in the fertility journey. Like you can't have cramps, you can't have any type of symptoms. You have to be like consistent. Like you're not allowed to have you know, days where you go a little bit slower. From a dietician's perspective, what's your, what are your thoughts on that?
Deanna: Honestly, I mean, I can share my journey because I never had a perfect period. And truthfully it's, it's interesting you say that because we don't have a ton of classes that focus on this, you know, we, we, we have a few classes that are like life cycle nutrition and kind of every piece of a person's life from zero years old to 80 years old, like what you're doing, but I'm, I can't really come to like a point where, you know, we were really taught that a healthy period is potentially straight from nutrition. Which I think there's a lot more information out there now. Right. And I think just personally for me with my period journey I think I kind of already alluded it to it on this recording was just that I was putting my body under so much stress that I wasn't getting a period at all.
Spenser: And so what was happening internally for you? What did the stress do to your body?
Deanna: Honestly, a lot of it stemmed from like, not eating enough, exercising too much. And so that stress compounded itself because I did do, you know, a body building competition and things that I don't recommend to women that seem healthy that are not healthy at all. Right. You're you're not eating enough calories.
So for me it was, it was not eating enough calories in the form of fat and carbohydrates. And it was exercising too much with a very like regimented exercise routine. So that's kind of like the red flags that I, but no OB ever, like, I don't know if we want to touch on this. No OB ever really tied it back to that.
And I, I, so if there's anybody listening that you potentially feel like your. You know, you're running a lot. You can take no rest days, you eat protein, but you really restrict carbs and fat. And there's also a book, No Period, Now What by Nicola Rinaldi. And I had her on my page in an IGT TV. She's great, right? Like to, to get your period back in that sense, you do need to be eating 2,500 calories. She really recommends not doing exercise above a certain heart rate. No kind of super high intense exercise. So that's kind of my journey. And I don't know if that would resonate with your population.
Spenser: Ya, so like energetically. Like, just from that perspective, what did you need to give more of your body? What did you like, it was yeah, more food, but what was that really? What we, what, what was your body really craving from more of like an energetic, emotional perspective?
Deanna: I mean, less stress and less perfection for sure what you go through to but it was, it was, yeah, just more grace for myself rest days, dining out with my fiancé now, husband instead of needing to make my perfect separate meals.
Spenser: So, so eventually you became more and more comfortable in the. What would you call that like grace? Yes. Flexibility, intuitive eating. And so how long do you think just to give people, you know, a nice perspective, but as you, as you start to transition to intuitive eating and I'm definitely going to check out that book cause that sounds incredible. How long does it take to start that journey towards intuitive eating as opposed to restriction?
Deanna: I always get the question first. How long does it usually take, how long does it usually take for my body to trust me again, right? Or for me, we can be like, I can get to that kind of set point weight range, which is, you know, this, a lot of research is done around the set point weight range.
And I say three months to a year, my food freedom journey and to become an intuitive eater, you know, I've been on the journey for, for four years now. And I feel like I'm pretty far, but I would say in the first year to two, I really do think it can take a year to two years, which does sound really scary for most women, right?
We want, that's why the diet industry is a $70 billion industry because we want it now. We want to Amazon prime, that diet pill, that juice cleanse and get the results.
Spenser: And the baby. We went to Amazon prime the baby.
Deanna: And nine months has been a long time. Yeah, I think that's, you know,
Spenser: Roughly, a rough time period. And then, so what, what, how do you, when your body gives you signs or symbols, or symptoms, not symbols, Symbols, you could spiritually look at it from that perspective. But I think when we have symptoms and signs from our body, when they're like, is that a bad thing or is that actually quite normal to get.
You know, for your, for your body to give you signs and symptoms. I was, I was recently like reading something on it and it was, and it was just being able to respond to your body, not with panic and not with fear. And instead starting to see those signs and those symptoms as somewhat of like a normal part of just having a human body.
But how can we respond to those with more love if, if we are, if we're just beginning to steer away from perfection. I mean, signs and symptoms within your body, I assume it was like perfectly normal.
Deanna: Completely. And I think it's women that are really hard on themselves. Like you said, your clients are, we are so driven and focused that we potentially aren't paying attention. Right. We're potentially not like sitting down and saying, well, does this happen every month? Right? When does this happen or what do I do that? And like, starting to take note of those things instead of, you know, just so on this, like, well, it wasn't perfect this month. Let's try again next month. Yes. So like so in this like driven perfectionistic mindset that we can't listen. And I think that goes back to like us not really being in tune with our bodies.
Spenser: So what does it mean to you to listen to your symptoms?
Deanna: Hmm, I think it would honestly, like when we started more of our journey, period wise was me just being like, I mean, we don't learn a lot about periods, so I'm glad you do a lot of this stuff, because even for me, it was like, I don't, I don't know if you teach on this stuff, but like what, you know, body fluids do I have, like, what, how do I feel each month? Like how does my energy ebb and flow? And just kind of like taking note of some of that stuff
Spenser: And not making it mean something bad or wrong.
Deanna: Yeah. Totally.. Yes.
Spenser: Speaking of that, like I think what makes us have food guilt is labeling foods as right or wrong. That are good. What do you think? What's your definition of food?
Deanna: I really do consider no foods to be bad or good. Right. When you put that label on and you're telling yourself, well, I'm good or bad for eating this, right. You're notgood or bad eating any food. Like, no matter what it is, no matter if it's, you know, foods that are the most processed in the world, you know, ultra processed, right. Processed food isn't, there's now ultra processed food because processed food, if you know, the definition of it is literally chopped broccoli, right. Is it, you know, like any food that has changed its natural shape at all? So now there's any processed foods which are foods that are, you know, high fat, high sodium, high sugar all at one time.
I think it's really. I can't remember what the original question was... bad or good foods. I just want you to take away those words from your vocabulary, bad or good. It's more about, will this food give me energy for the next three hours? How can I pair this food? Right. Cookies are completely like, I will never eat them again, but then you see them at a party and you like binge them. That's not a healthy relationship with food.
Spenser: Right, right, right, right, right, right.
Deanna: Be more neutral with that food too. So do you need to work to potentially, you know, have that be a part of your life again and eat a cookie with, you know, a salad with filling, you know, nuts and seeds and, and chicken. You know, grains in it and have the cookie on the side. So it's not just like, think I'm going to have a cookie and then you have a cookie and then you're like having more. So I always work to introduce something labeled bad in a more normal sense. So that eventually you're just like, oh, okay. I can have that cookie whenever. So I really don't think there are foods that should be considered bad or good because all foods can fit in a certain way in our diet.
Spenser: Love that that is so good.
Deanna: And even, you know, if you think about fruit, you know, or even spinach, carbs, spinach is, is carbs. I know that is the macronutrient they have. So, so is, you know, an Oreo cookie it's mostly carbohydrates, right? Those are all broken down, ultimately into the same fuel in our body for how we use it. So if you actually know, like we have to take six months of absorption and metabolism class, In, in dietetic school, you know, to realize they both break down into the same thing. Do they have different nutrients that make you maybe break them down slower? Right? Like all the nutrients that you get and spin it, that you don't get in a cookie, like, you know, the vitamin K and all of the nutrients.
So again, there's positives to some food, but it doesn't mean that that, because there's positives, the other food is bad or like, just complete waste of, you know, calories in general, because who wants to like miss out on like their grandma's cookies or, you know, things that like,
Spenser: Exactly, that you've loved and you've always love. And that brings back all those great feelings and memories. I agree. I totally agree. And I think one thing, you know, just to kind of wrap this up, what I love is just being with your food and like consciously being present with your food. I think personally I'll speak for myself. It's like one of the best experiences you can have in life, because I love food.
I'm a total foodie and diet culture has, you know, it, it takes that away from you. It takes away this gift that we have been given as human beings and what a, what an opportunity to take that back and to enjoy the fuck out of it. You know!
Deanna: You’ll have to come to Washington DC and I can show you all the cool and we will enjoy it and we will get, you know, all the best food because I agree, I think it can be fun again and putting less stress around it is really, it's just amazing. Right? I think, I recently just had a client who was like, this is just a new way to live that I never thought was ever possible. It's a new way to think about my life into the future. Like I have a anniversary coming up and we'll probably get a cake after and go out to a dinner and I'm not, it's just like a new way for people to live that most women truly don't think is possible.
And I think that is the best thing I can hear from people instead of like, she had said, I feel like I don't have a cloud hanging over me anymore. You know, I don't feel like if I choose cereal, my diet's busted for the day. Right. You know, it's just a completely different way of existing and that change and epiphany is like, I love it.
Spenser: Yeah. Oh, it's, it's like all the mind drama, you know, can go out the door or like all of the real estate that diet culture took up on your brain, right? Like can begin to find another location somewhere else. You know? It is, well, I mean, maybe that's what we'll say, because I think that's how we actually have to have to the message that we, that I would love to instill inside of this podcast is because diet culture is so ingrained in us is that it is possible to have a new relationship or another relationship with food. You know, I think it's such a stretch for a lot of women to even be introduced to this idea. So, and that's, that's totally okay if you're feeling that way. That's 100%. Okay. It's not your fault, but it is possible. And that's enough right now.
Deanna: And if somebody is finding me from this podcast or from your page, Spenser, like, and you don't know my story, I never thought I would get here. Right? Like I've taken this shit to the extreme and maybe you're an extreme, and I always tell clients, like you still deserve to know how to take care of your health without it being all about dieting. Like even if you're, you know, a different size than, you know, or people are like, would question you because of your size. I think women of all sizes deserve to stop dieting. Right? It's not just
Spenser: Right. Yes.
Deanna: You know, only the women that are re you know, really crazy dieter, you know, it's like everybody deserves this freedom, no matter where you're at, you don't have to take it to crazy extremes. And most women, when they start my program are like, I honestly did not realize that there was another way.
Spenser: That's exactly it.
Deanna: So I think that can be powerful too.
Spenser: I love that. Thank you so much for being here and, and, you know, for this, a lot of people here, like I said, it might be a new idea. So thank you for introducing those to them and filling them with this possibility. I, you guys have to follow Deanna on Instagram. She has such an awesome page. You, you know what you do, you like give unpopular opinions all the time and I'm all about it. I'm like so good. Like, you can tell that you have incredible confidence because you're just saying what you really believe and you don't give a shit if people aren't into it. And a lot of. It's a controversial topic that you're in, right? It's it is, especially for people who have been bred that less is better, less is better. So I don't know. What is your Instagram handle?
Deanna: Mine is dietitiandeanna. Dietitian is with two T's. Most people think there's a C in it. So it's D I E T I T I A N and I'm sure you'll tag that.
And then my 12 week program Food Freedom Breakthrough, if you're interested in learning how to become an intuitive eater, get rid of diet culture, stop the guilt around food. That's where I work with women over 12 weeks in a group setting. So empowering. And my next group does, we have a huge like cyber Monday discount coming. I know that sounds far, but if you're thinking like, you know, the holidays and starting out January with already a new diet, like that is key for you then to hop on over, you know, get on the wait list and I'll hopefully be grateful to work with you in the future.
Spenser: Awesome. Okay. Well, good luck with baby. So exciting. Okay. Thanks for tuning in guys. See you.
Deanna: Thanks Spenser.
Thanks for tuning in. If you want to fast track your mind, body connection. You can sign up for free fertility mindset trainings atwww.spenserbrassard.com.